Expertise Ranger Attribute - Page 3 - Guild Wars Forums

Izzy Izumi · Jul 26, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Why use Ignite/Kindle if it's a Wilderness Survival? An extra +9 or so damage isn't worth putting anything in WS, tbh. =\

As I said, I'd rather put more in Beast, get rid of Kindle/Poison, and let Fido do all the work. Use your shiny electric stick to point to where the pet is supposed to go. Again, I don't see the point in having a Max Damage Bow, if all you need it dor is to get the Pet attacking the right badguy. I'd even go so far to sa, just unreq your bow. And use your Favorable Winds (even this I don't exactly see as "useful", there are more bowmen in the game than a party does at any given point) sparingly.

Then again, people say that all the time about Tiger's. =P

Well, whatever works for you. And I *still* want to know how you conserve energy!

Spike · Jul 26, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Actually I do quite good damage and poison.

Strange how I have been to all the desert collectors and never seen this icon, or ever met anyone who has heard of it or used it. Before it was mentioned on this thread I have never seen it mentioned on this forum either. At least not in any post I have seen.

Ignite arrows is +15 damage and does splash damage too.

Favorable winds makes arrows move twice as fast and does extra damage.

Why do i use a bow? Well its very good for lureing away mobs with its 100' range.

Wilderness survival is VERY usefull for a number of Ranger skills such as traps, defense, healing, and bow attacks.

I conserve energy by not spaming bow attacks all the time. if you use less you don't need to conserve it.

Algren Cole · Jul 26, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

don't you already have Beast Mastery pumped? why wouldn't you use Tigers Fury instead of Favorable Winds to get your attack rate up...it's going to do the same thing as favorable winds only it'll do it by making you attack faster rather than making your arrows fly faster...couple that with a halfmoon or a short bow and you have no need for favorable winds... which will allow you to put points into Expertise so you can spam dual shot + power shot + tigers fury, which will do an amazing amount of damage...then switch your points to Wilderness Survival when you feel like trapping.

Algren Cole · Jul 27, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

btw:

a collector at vulture drifts near the teleporter (northern part) he wants 5 iridescent griffon wings....

the item is spec'd as follows:

Healing Icon: +12 energy (9 healing prayers) +15 energy -1 eng regen, +30 hp

Avantos · Jul 27, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Actually I do quite good damage and poison.

Strange how I have been to all the desert collectors and never seen this icon, or ever met anyone who has heard of it or used it. Before it was mentioned on this thread I have never seen it mentioned on this forum either. At least not in any post I have seen.

Ignite arrows is +15 damage and does splash damage too.

Favorable winds makes arrows move twice as fast and does extra damage.

Why do i use a bow? Well its very good for lureing away mobs with its 100' range.

Wilderness survival is VERY usefull for a number of Ranger skills such as traps, defense, healing, and bow attacks.

I conserve energy by not spaming bow attacks all the time. if you use less you don't need to conserve it.

My apologies if I'm wrong, but I do not believe you play PvP?

It is passable in PvE to not constantly use your skills immediately as they recharge. To you, this may seem like conservative usage on your part.

However, in a PvP situation, for example, you cannot leisurely activate skills--you must constantly use them to get the most damage out as battles don't usually last all that long and to use your skills slower is to effectively make your skills less useful.

In PvE, its benefit is to allow you to use your skills rapidly in order to kill enemies, thus reducing their damage to you (dead enemies don't attack).

Although for a slower playstyle like your own, an expertise-less ranger is passable, a faster-paced player would certainly invest in expertise as it increases the efficiency of a ranger greatly.

Of course, considering you are a necromancer secondary, I suppose it is possible you are using Blood is Power or Blood Offering, but both of those are use of an elite skill slot when a primary attribute does just as well--if not far better.

But, if I may ask, if you believe that both soul reaping and expertise are not useful at all, why did you get a primary profession that you believe has a useful primary attribute? Primary attributes and armor are very important parts of a character, and directly dependent on your primary profession.

aB- · Jul 27, 2005, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

I conserve energy by not spaming bow attacks all the time. if you use less you don't need to conserve it.

And that is why you are mediocre at best compared to a ranger with expertise. One with expertise can constantly use their skills once they are recharged. Can you boast this same strength out of your build?

There IS in fact a collector in the desert with a +27 energy focus item. It comes at the cost of -1 regeneration, but in the heat of the battle the +27 energy is very useful.

Spike · Jul 27, 2005, 01:52 AM // 01:52

You are correct I do NOT pvp and no intrest in doing so. Tigers fury last at most 10 seconds and only effects the caster. Fav winds last up to 126 seconds and effects everyone in its radius plus it adds damage.

I have played though the game as an E/Me which i changed to E/mo after I had done the last mission. I started a W/Mo while I was still playing though the game as an E/Me. So this left me two classes I had not tried. It took me a while to decide if I wanted to be a N/R or R/N. After I talked to friend of mine whos a primary necro and he said I would better off as a R/N.

I decided to start as a R/N. I had heard that expertise was pretty much essential to a ranger but as I played though I found very little use for it esp to start with. For most of the missions I used Marks/BM/WS/Death. The death magic was for minons. The marks was so I could use the strom bow my e/mo had got him. The BM for my very usefull pet. The WS for various other things. The more I played the less usefull I found expertise.

Now I have all my 200 AP, I really don't see the point in wasteing half of them for saveing a few points of energy when I bascily never run out of it. The only reason I can see now to spend any points in it would be for Practiced Stance which makes preps like ignite arrows or apply poison last longer.

In my experense you can get playable characters with out useing the primary attrubite for 5 of the 6 professions. As I have said you can make a ranger with out expertise. Loads of people don't use strength for warriors, devine favour for monks or soul reaping for necros. I don't know much about mesmers even though my 1st character was an e/me as I never found much use for mesmer skills but I'm sure you could play one with out fast casting. How ever I don't see a way to get a playable ele without energy storage. Maybe saying it was the best primary attrebute was not the right word but its certinaly the one that no ele can be do with out.

Just casue I don't spam bow attacks all the time does'nt mean I'm not as good as someone who does. It takes a lot more to being a ranger than just spaming bow attacks. Which you would know if you had ever played one.

aB- · Jul 27, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Loads of people don't use strength for warriors, devine favour for monks or soul reaping for necros

How many healing monks, or ANY monk for that matter doesn't use divine favor? Playing a monk without it would just be stupid. Strength is less important for warriors, but still gives a good passive bonus. And soul reaping I can't comment on because I have never played a necro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Just casue I don't spam bow attacks all the time does'nt mean I'm not as good as someone who does. It takes a lot more to being a ranger than just spaming bow attacks. Which you would know if you had ever played one.

How can you expect to outdamage someone using less skills. Assuming you are equipped the same, the person using more skills more often will be the stronger one. If you have better equiptment than them, the results will be less obvious, however that is more a matter of wealth. In short, how can you expect to out damage someone using less skills than them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

I really don't see the point in wasteing half of them for saveing a few points of energy

Getting to 12 expertise is easy if you use a cap with expertise and one rune. With a minor you are only using 61 points, a major only using 48, and with a superior using only 37. Isn't investing a small amount of points worth just about halving the skill cost of your skills?

Kishin · Jul 27, 2005, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Actually I do quite good damage and poison.

Strange how I have been to all the desert collectors and never seen this icon, or ever met anyone who has heard of it or used it. Before it was mentioned on this thread I have never seen it mentioned on this forum either. At least not in any post I have seen.

Strange how I have two screenshots that prove the existence of these items.
Look harder next time.

JoDiamonds · Jul 27, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

You are correct I do NOT pvp and no intrest in doing so.

No one is telling you to do so. But it's an important distinction.

Quote:

Tigers fury last at most 10 seconds and only effects the caster. Fav winds last up to 126 seconds and effects everyone in its radius plus it adds damage.

And "everyone" includes enemies, of course, so if there are more enemies using bows than players in your party using bows, then you are helping the enemy more than yourself.

Quote:

Now I have all my 200 AP, I really don't see the point in wasteing half of them for saveing a few points of energy when I bascily never run out of it.

Of course, the reason you don't run out of energy is because you simply don't use skills (as much). That's not really an energy management technique. My Elementalist can do the same thing; it just so happens that Rangers and Warriors can get away with it better. Still, any class is a lot less effective without using skills, even if that's just part of the time.

Quote:

The only reason I can see now to spend any points in it would be for Practiced Stance which makes preps like ignite arrows or apply poison last longer.

Are you saying you can't imagine why someone would want to use Expertise? Or just that you don't like it? You make it sound like anyone using Expertise must be crazy.

Quote:

In my experense you can get playable characters with out useing the primary attrubite for 5 of the 6 professions. As I have said you can make a ranger with out expertise. Loads of people don't use strength for warriors, devine favour for monks or soul reaping for necros. I don't know much about mesmers even though my 1st character was an e/me as I never found much use for mesmer skills but I'm sure you could play one with out fast casting. How ever I don't see a way to get a playable ele without energy storage.

For every class, if you aren't using the primary attribute then you are only getting armor and runes out of your class choice. The armor doesn't even matter much except that you are either a caster or you aren't; casters want the energy regeneration of their armor, and melee fighters want warrior armor. Runes are definitely nice, but hardly make the class unique.

Rangers: Energy management, some skills.
Elementalists: Energy management, very few skills.
Necromancers: Energy management, no skills
Divine Favor: Energy management and speed of healing, a few skills.
Warriors: Damage penetration, lots of skills.
Mesmers: Speed of casting; important for interrupting enemy skill use.

Four out of the six primary attributes are about energy management. Sure, I'm stretching it slightly for Divine Favor, but not much. It's the exact argument that comes up for why primary monks are good healers compared to Elementalist Monks ... who obviously can have more energy.

If Divine Favor is useless, then primary monks would be utterly pointless and everyone should play Elementalist Monks (unless you really want the runes). Sure, you can be a monk without using it, but then why wouldn't you be some other class and Monk Secondary?

Quote:

Maybe saying it was the best primary attrebute was not the right word but its certinaly the one that no ele can be do with out.

For someone who wants to blast repeatedly, I suppose. I've seen some fairly effective W/Els, and other secondary Elementalists, that are extremely effective. (In particular, a few W/El who focus on short range Fire spells, like Phoenix, Inferno, Lava Font, because they can generally use them much more effectively than a primary Elementalist.)

None of the attributes are "required", but all of them are quite useful.

Quote:

Just casue I don't spam bow attacks all the time does'nt mean I'm not as good as someone who does. It takes a lot more to being a ranger than just spaming bow attacks. Which you would know if you had ever played one.

Oooh, more insulting, as if no one else has ever played a ranger. You take things awfully personally.

In conclusion, most people like Expertise and find it useful, especially in a mini-maxing, competitive fashion. No one is trying to tell you how to play the game. If you don't want to use any attribute points, don't.

Jul 26, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19	#41
Izzy Izumi Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: R/N	Why use Ignite/Kindle if it's a Wilderness Survival? An extra +9 or so damage isn't worth putting anything in WS, tbh. =\ As I said, I'd rather put more in Beast, get rid of Kindle/Poison, and let Fido do all the work. Use your shiny electric stick to point to where the pet is supposed to go. Again, I don't see the point in having a Max Damage Bow, if all you need it dor is to get the Pet attacking the right badguy. I'd even go so far to sa, just unreq your bow. And use your Favorable Winds (even this I don't exactly see as "useful", there are more bowmen in the game than a party does at any given point) sparingly. Then again, people say that all the time about Tiger's. =P Well, whatever works for you. And I still want to know how you conserve energy! Last edited by Izzy Izumi; Jul 26, 2005 at 05:22 PM // 17:22..

Jul 27, 2005, 01:52 AM // 01:52	#47
Spike Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: In front of my PC Guild: Kai Profession: E/Mo	You are correct I do NOT pvp and no intrest in doing so. Tigers fury last at most 10 seconds and only effects the caster. Fav winds last up to 126 seconds and effects everyone in its radius plus it adds damage. I have played though the game as an E/Me which i changed to E/mo after I had done the last mission. I started a W/Mo while I was still playing though the game as an E/Me. So this left me two classes I had not tried. It took me a while to decide if I wanted to be a N/R or R/N. After I talked to friend of mine whos a primary necro and he said I would better off as a R/N. I decided to start as a R/N. I had heard that expertise was pretty much essential to a ranger but as I played though I found very little use for it esp to start with. For most of the missions I used Marks/BM/WS/Death. The death magic was for minons. The marks was so I could use the strom bow my e/mo had got him. The BM for my very usefull pet. The WS for various other things. The more I played the less usefull I found expertise. Now I have all my 200 AP, I really don't see the point in wasteing half of them for saveing a few points of energy when I bascily never run out of it. The only reason I can see now to spend any points in it would be for Practiced Stance which makes preps like ignite arrows or apply poison last longer. In my experense you can get playable characters with out useing the primary attrubite for 5 of the 6 professions. As I have said you can make a ranger with out expertise. Loads of people don't use strength for warriors, devine favour for monks or soul reaping for necros. I don't know much about mesmers even though my 1st character was an e/me as I never found much use for mesmer skills but I'm sure you could play one with out fast casting. How ever I don't see a way to get a playable ele without energy storage. Maybe saying it was the best primary attrebute was not the right word but its certinaly the one that no ele can be do with out. Just casue I don't spam bow attacks all the time does'nt mean I'm not as good as someone who does. It takes a lot more to being a ranger than just spaming bow attacks. Which you would know if you had ever played one. Last edited by Spike; Jul 27, 2005 at 01:55 AM // 01:55..

Jul 26, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58	#42
Spike Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: In front of my PC Guild: Kai Profession: E/Mo	Actually I do quite good damage and poison. Strange how I have been to all the desert collectors and never seen this icon, or ever met anyone who has heard of it or used it. Before it was mentioned on this thread I have never seen it mentioned on this forum either. At least not in any post I have seen. Ignite arrows is +15 damage and does splash damage too. Favorable winds makes arrows move twice as fast and does extra damage. Why do i use a bow? Well its very good for lureing away mobs with its 100' range. Wilderness survival is VERY usefull for a number of Ranger skills such as traps, defense, healing, and bow attacks. I conserve energy by not spaming bow attacks all the time. if you use less you don't need to conserve it.

Jul 26, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02	#43
Algren Cole Banned Join Date: Jun 2005	don't you already have Beast Mastery pumped? why wouldn't you use Tigers Fury instead of Favorable Winds to get your attack rate up...it's going to do the same thing as favorable winds only it'll do it by making you attack faster rather than making your arrows fly faster...couple that with a halfmoon or a short bow and you have no need for favorable winds... which will allow you to put points into Expertise so you can spam dual shot + power shot + tigers fury, which will do an amazing amount of damage...then switch your points to Wilderness Survival when you feel like trapping.

Jul 27, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27	#44
Algren Cole Banned Join Date: Jun 2005	btw: a collector at vulture drifts near the teleporter (northern part) he wants 5 iridescent griffon wings.... the item is spec'd as follows: Healing Icon: +12 energy (9 healing prayers) +15 energy -1 eng regen, +30 hp